Marianne Kane  00:00

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Equipped with Strength Podcast. Today I have a very excited to have Jen Campbell here from Balanced 365. And welcome, Jen, thank you for coming on to talk to our listeners

Jen Campbell  00:13

Thanks for having me.

Marianne Kane  00:15

So give us a little background about you because it's like we we've known each other for what, seven years and a lot has changed for you. But tell us like a little bit about what Balance 365 is? And what's it all about? What's the goals for for your company?

Jen Campbell  00:34

Yeah, so I was lucky enough to have a couple really amazing strength and conditioning coaches early on in my 20s, you were one of them. And another one was my husband's coach for he's a boxer. So he had a strength and conditioning coach helping them get ready for fights. And so just having that exposure to really good coaching early on, I would say, really changed my trajectory and my expectations, and really changed how I saw the world right, I had basically gone from your typical young woman who was constantly pursuing thinness, bought fitness magazines from the grocery store and was trying to copy other people's workouts and the way they were eating, obsessed over what fitness models were eating, want thought I could try all the supplements thought I should maybe do clean eating keto, like I mean, and that went on for years before I really discovered sustainable what I would call sustainable fitness, and nutrition practices.

Jen Campbell  01:49

And I, my background is actually business. So I worked in digital marketing, before I was in the health and wellness industry. And I always had an entrepreneurial brain. But I think I was waiting for like, you know, I worked for this digital marketing company, and I saw people doing very well online. And I think I just was waiting, I was waiting for an idea. And, you know, living my life doing my thing got married, had the kids did all the things worked with you. And I felt really drawn to the health and wellness industry.You know, a lot of the reason would probably be from working with someone like you that was very compassionate, I just had a baby weren't trying to kick my ass. And I also had, you know, just some postpartum issues like pelvic pain and incontinence, all of that. And nobody was talking about those things back then. And I wanted to build a bring this information forward. And the my entrepreneur brain was like, there's a real, there's a real gap here.

Jen Campbell  03:01

That's where I started. And when I started there, I saw more gaps. And I think that you and I could probably say there's a lot of health and wellness gaps in this industry. And, you know, so I started running, like, pre and postnatal group fitness classes, and I would have women coming in who wanted to lose weight, which by the way, I'm I'm totally fine with that as a goal personally. But they were just very unkind to themselves, they would, or I'd get emails, inquiring if I could, if I was the type of trainer that would kick their ass in the gym and help them lose the last five pounds of baby weight and things like that. And it was just so not aligned with the woman I had become in my 30s, early 20s. Totally, I would have been all over that. But it just wasn't where I was anymore. And I could see the deep harm that it was causing it that it had caused me and that it was causing other women. So that was a very short stint on the fitness side of the health and wellness industry. And where I decided I really wanted to work was in nutrition coaching. And to be honest, nutrition coaching is like as far as what our company does, it's a very small piece of what we do. I would say we're more like life coaches than we then than nutrition coaches. But nutrition coaching is that's me. That's meeting people where they're at. And that's them thinking, that's what they need. I know what I mean.

Marianne Kane  04:40

Yeah, they know what you mean. And you have to do that right? You have to meet them where they're at because otherwise you're not going to reach them because they're not ready for this awareness. They don't there's just like an awareness piece that hasn't happened yet. for both of us even we had that happen along the way where there's just this raising of awareness. And what I love is that you said that it's more about life coaching, right? Because you're, you know, a lot of what you do, I believe is like, helping people with, with skills and thinking patterns. And, you know, one of the things that we're going to touch on today is the all or nothing way of thinking and viewing things in a perfectionistic. Kind of kind of way. If you don't get it all right, then there's not worth doing at all, and

Jen Campbell  05:31

burn it down.

Marianne Kane  05:32

Yeah. So like, as if zero sum, like unless you get everything, then you're not going to get anything. And so tell us a little bit about some of the, I guess the more of that, like those problems that maybe you're seeing coming as people coming into where you're meeting them?

Jen Campbell  05:52

Yeah, so the interesting thing about what we do is, our clients primarily have weight loss goals. And the The interesting thing about what I do, compared to when I started six years ago, is we've had an enormous kind of uprising of like this anti weight loss message. So when I, you know, I think back 10 years ago, it was all weight loss, weight loss, weight loss, and I thought that was wrong, right? Like I, I saw the problem in that. And now it's all anti weight loss, anti weight loss, anti weight loss. And I also see the problems in that. So that's still what we do. It's funny, because when we got started six years ago, it was sort of those fad diet pushers that really criticized us, right. So we would get, we would get these messages that were promoting obesity, like it was just, you know, you can just imagine the types of things we heard.

Jen Campbell  06:58

Now, we don't hear from those people at all. Now we get, you know, nasty comments from people who think talking about weight loss in any form is oppressive. And so that's just the other side that we're now navigating. And so, on that note, we are sort of elevator pitch would be that we help women find their ideal body weight without dieting. And one of the problems out there is that, you know, the health, wellness, fitness industry, whatever you want to call it, they have been pushing a body ideal for decades, right? And so we've got all these people out there that that message is totally, it's totally going right over their heads, because the the this ideal that's keeps being pushed is purely aesthetic, and it's so unattainable for your average person that why would you even bother?

Jen Campbell  08:07

Right? Yeah. And so I could see that there was this enormous gap here, you know, there's people that they want health and wellness, but they're not necessarily looking for a six pack, right? They just want to lose a little weight, feel a little better, move a little better, have more energy, better nutrition habits, but they still want to have cake, you know, like, they're looking for balance, which hence is why we're called Balance 365.

Jen Campbell  08:37

And so, if anyone was coming to me looking for, like, Hi, I'm trying to get a six pack. Should I join your program? I would say, no, we're not for you. And in my own personal journey, for me finding balance meant living in a body that's heavier than my leanness weight. Right? So I'm depending on the season 20 to 30 pounds up from my leanness weight, and that's balanced for me. And my business partner who I founded this company with Annie, she used to be a size 24 and now she's a size 12. So for her, it's actually she is in her leanness weight. And we always try to share both of those stories. So people understand, you know, both sides of this issue. Is that what your healthiest weight is may not be what you think.

Marianne Kane  09:31

Right. Yeah. How does the sort of like perfectionism show up for those people who are, I can just imagine what I kind of know from, you know, the types of things I see I'm sure that having two extremes, where you have the Health at Every Size and intuitive eating, we can't mention words like fat loss or you know, there's certain words that are banned from some groups, which is, you know, triggering for some people. But then you have those people who genuinely do want to lose weight, but they're kind of lost in the sea of, well, what's the best thing to do?

Jen Campbell  10:07

The how.

Marianne Kane  10:08

The how, right, so how, how. How are you Those people are the ones here maybe trying to find the right way to do it. Is that like, yeah, you're seeing it?

Jen Campbell  10:20

Totally. And so of course we do we have a lot of perfectionist thinking out there. And we have a lot of all or nothing thinking. And whether you know where that comes from, in our society or upbringing, it's it's literally everywhere, right? It's in health and wellness. It's in business. It's in academic achievement. And so collectively, we have this perfectionist all or nothing mindset, right. And so that's kind of trickled over everywhere. So we have people who would like to improve their health and wellness. But this, it just seems so unattainable because they have this idea that adding protein to breakfast is not enough. So why bother? Right? A lot of self sabotage thoughts coming up. So why bother is something we hear a lot? Yeah, so why bother. And so, for us, we talk a lot about which this phrase actually came from Dr. Yoni Freedhoff. And he's an obesity medicine doctor here in Canada. And he said, Your healthiest weight is the weight you reach when you're living the healthiest life that you can enjoy. And that's going to be different for everybody. And so sometimes we prepare people coming in to our program that we can absolutely help them with weight loss. It may not look like what you've been imagining. But that's okay. And to just kind of be open to this to figuring out what that is. Because it just, it maybe isn't an experience they've ever had before. They've been up and down and keto and, you know, dropping 50 pounds in three months. And then three months later, they put it all back on. And you know, it's an honestly, there's a lot of mindset stuff that comes with that. And you know, when you fail, quote, unquote, fail at something over and over and over your, your self efficacy is so low, like you really just have no trust in your own ability to follow through. So, you know, a lot of times we're working on those foundational mindset issues that a lot of people carry with them.

Marianne Kane  12:45

Love that you brought that up, because though the self efficacy and sense of agency is really taken away by the fitness industry, because they start with, "I'm the hero of your story", (the coach says). I'm going to fix you. So yeah, of course it's immediately reinforced that that person I'm broken, I need somebody to I have no power in this. So you're saying is that you're equipping, Or you're helping people reveal to themselves that they have the tools to find a way forward?

Jen Campbell  13:19

Yeah, and when when people thank us this is exactly kind of our policy, and our our philosophy is saying, like, we offered you an invitation, and we showed you where the door is, you're the one that walked through it. Yeah, like you are the one who did this work. And to me, that's what feels right. So for a woman who really felt like she had to reclaim her own body autonomy for many different reasons, one of them was definitely diet culture and living in that world for so many years. Another was just sort of my, my upbringing and some of the messages I got there and having three babies and four years that was you know, that was really reclaiming your body after those experiences. And so that the interesting thing was that I see these kind of two opposing messages, right, like weight loss, weight loss, weight loss, and no weight loss, no weight loss, no weight loss. And my experience was so not either, you know, it was just so I had three babies and four years like, don't tell me what, what is right for my body, like, you know, and I, after my third baby, I was the heaviest. I was the heaviest I've ever been in my life. And I had, I had no idea what to do about that. Because I all I had ever known is honestly keto. That's basically what I did. keto or low carb for a decade. And so I after I had my third baby, I had a huge awareness that I couldn't do this dieting stuff anymore. I couldn't do this body shame stuff anymore.

Jen Campbell  15:14

But then I didn't know what to do. Right. And at that time, it was 2013, like the body positive movement was starting to pick up steam back then. It's not, it's nowhere near what it has become. And I don't even think how that every size existed in 2013. I'm, I'm not sure about that, though. But anyways, it didn't exist in my world. And I, my personal experience in that world was, like, I just remember specifically, going from a macro counting program, and Facebook group that was horrific, like, it was so unhealthy. You know, looking back, I could tell you a million stories, it was horrific. And you know, a woman with three kids, like three babies, I guess for me, like I had no business being that extreme. With my nutrition. At that time in my life, like it was, I remember trying to figure out how many macros were in a bowl of spaghetti sauce with baby crying at my feet. And like, it was just the chaos of it, right, two kids at the table. Like it was just, it caused me so much anxiety. And I'm not saying it causes everybody anxiety, I'm just sharing my personal experience. And then sort of like walking away from that and saying, like, that's, it's not sustainable. For me, I can't be this extreme anymore. And sort of finding these body positive communities that were honestly so amazing for me in the beginning. And learning all of these different ideas. But then reaching a point where I knew I was that the heaviest I'd ever been, and I was so uncomfortable in my body. And my hips hurt, like, which I have some pain from, from my, from my second pregnancy, actually, my hips hurt. I felt heavy. I felt like, this is not what size I'm supposed to be. It was just an intuitive thing. And I am bringing that up in those communities, you know, kind of which now I'm like, wow, how could you but it was like, Okay, I get it, love my body. But it's a little heavy.

Jen Campbell  17:36

And honestly, like, it's like, I'm a thin white woman saying that in a community like that. It's just I can't even believe I did that. And no wonder people had the reaction to me that they did. I clearly hadn't done all the work to understand body positivity at that point. And so the reaction to me was just so strong, and I was so hurt, like, I was felt like, Hey, I like you know, I felt I had, I had found a place I belonged in and then all of a sudden I didn't. And that was a point where I was just kind of like, goodbye all philosophies I'm doing me. And I figured it out on my own. So and I did what, I lost 30 pounds in 18 months, you know, it wasn't extreme. It was came as a result of self care life skills and eating habits, really understanding habits and balanced nutrition. And so for me, I just wanted that for all women. I wanted that as an option for all women, they can do what they want, but I wanted to offer that as an option.

Jen Campbell  18:47

And so yeah, I met Annie and Annie had had this, like this big weight loss story and but she was very private about and to be honest, she's still pretty private about it because it tends to attract the wrong client for us, I think sometimes, you know, like, it tends to attract a very desperate crowd of what did you eat? What did so anyways, our philosophies really aligned and what we wanted to introduce people really aligned and she had this lived experience that I could, I could never understand of living in a larger body, which even at my heaviest I would pass in our society for being, you know, in a small to medium sized body. And so her experience and everything she had learned was just so incredible. And we came up with this company together.

Marianne Kane  19:34

I think it's great the way that you you know, having gone through all of that is kind of landed you in the perfect place to speak to those exact moments in other people's lives when they're going through that something similar. They're trying to find their, their place in these extreme, often extreme views. That kind of seems like well, it's either this or that and that's again, yeah, Have the mentality of either or which isn't, you know, it's just not healthy. And it, it can be healthy for some people, obviously, right. But it's for a lot of people causes way more stress. Because Yeah, it shows that oh, well, if I can't exactly fit into their box, you know, I can't, you know, want to love my body on want to lose weight or like, you know, they totally feel that way.

Jen Campbell  20:26

This very, like, actually very restrictive binary idea. And I just, I just don't believe things are that black and white. I, I love this messy middle space that Annie and I live in with weight loss. And I there's a quote by Rene Brown, where she says, The hardest place to be is the messy middle, because you're taking arrows from both sides. And wow, do I feel that I feel that and I think it takes way less energy to choose a side, you know, it takes way less energy to say obesity is the worst and everybody should be trying to lose weight all the time, or, or there's no such thing as obesity. And anyone who is a weight loss coach, or who wants to lose weight is wrong. And so I see it happen all the time in our industry, just different, you know, colleagues that I have, or probably even mutual friends of ours, that they choose a side and they declare it on social media. And I think it's ridiculous. I honestly, do.

Marianne Kane  21:41

It's not realistic in many ways. It's not realistic. And I don't understand, like, what's wrong with "It depends". I don't understand what's wrong with saying that, like, it's, it's the truth like it is honestly, the truth. Every answer I give is depends like, I you know what, tell me about your story. And

Jen Campbell  22:02

Absolutely, yeah, we say that we say it depends all the time. Like it depends from in our coaching sessions to our team. In our in our mission, like, it really does depend. And that's the other reason having a coaching company, I guess allows us to do that. And the type of coaching we do is so individualized that honestly, it was even hard for us to figure out what our business model was going to be in order to give this type of individualized feedback to people that they really did need at a at a at a rate that it's affordable, right? Like most people don't have $500 a month to drop on nutrition coaching. Some do. And but that's not the audience I'm working with.

Jen Campbell  22:55

And so I'm very happy with our business model now. And I think we've done the best we can at the price we offer our program at. And I'm just yeah, I'm really proud of the impact we're making. And I'm really proud of living in this messy middle and having these hard conversations every day.

Marianne Kane  23:13

Definitely. And it's very reasonable, by the way your program, especially given all of the support that you're offering in that coaching. I think that's so important. And people don't think they need it until they're there. And they get it and they realize, wow, why did I go so long.

Jen Campbell  23:31

They come for the weight loss. They stay because we have incredible coaches, we have two therapists, and we have a dietician on our team. And that and when they start getting getting access to all to these people. And you know, I would say they come for the weight loss. And then they start peeling back layers, and another layer and another layer. And there's so much healing that's going on for women of balance 365 It makes me it makes me so proud, proud of them and proud of our team. And I every woman that kind of comes and works with us and discover something about herself and finds a new trajectory in life. Like I honestly don't care about the weight loss like i that is not that is not the most exciting part of our program. It is women discovering their inherent worth. Like that is so powerful. And then choosing the life that they want to be living right like choosing. And that's and I don't I don't mind. I don't care if somebody if she works with us and she decides weight loss is not important to her. I'm like, good for you. Right on. Right But you're now choosing you're not just awesome opting in to our culture.

Marianne Kane  25:02

Exactly. I love it. I like yay, inside. I love it. So I actually, I actually wrote down a few questions, but we've, we already kind of touched on them. But one of the things, so I was like, going through the program page for the, you know, the your coaching program, and I noticed in a q&a, the frequently asked questions at the bottom I got about before and after pictures, and they weren't there. Could you talk about that? Because this, this resonated with me. You don't use before and after pictures, generally speaking.

Jen Campbell  25:37

Generally No. Once in a while, we've used Annie's. And it's funny that this is a question because we shared Annie's today. And they shared it and had a conversation about it, right? We're never like bam, join balance 365 and get results like this. We're like, Hey, this is a question we get from time to time. And we actually we get it all the time, because we don't use before and after photos we, we people question us on do people even get results here do.

Jen Campbell  26:13

Like we had a comment a couple days ago on one of our posts. So we have a workshop coming up on emotional eating. And so we're running ads for people to sign up for this workshop. And a comment that came in was just a bit snarky, and she's something about says to thin women like, and you know what I get that, like I, I totally understand, I've never been there. But I understand how it must feel to live in a larger body and have thin women from the fitness industry telling you what to do all the time. So I get the the pushback and I like accept it. It's part of my work to accept that. So Annie went, you know, to speak with her in the comment section to let her know that she has her lived experience. And also to show a lot of compassion, we understand why she reacted that way to our photos. And then today, we did post it before and after of Annie like well, people in our DMs that are like do you have before and after photos because, like specifically of Annie, because they have a hard time believing that she's lost that much weight.

Jen Campbell  27:25

And so I would say we will sprinkle it in once in a while. And we absolutely share weight loss results that people get in our program, but we're not using before and after photos. And I guess what I want to say about that is like that's our policy right now. And I you know, people evolve and change, businesses evolve and change. I don't know what the future holds for us. But that's our policy right now. And the reason we did that is because the feedback I have heard about before and after photos is that they trigger a lot of shame. And I don't want somebody hitting the Join button to my program when they're ashamed. I want them feeling like excited, empowered. I'm joining a program and a community of women and coaches who are here to celebrate me no matter what.

Jen Campbell  28:24

That's how I want them to feel. But I would also say it's hurt us like before and after photos are such low hanging fruit in the health and fitness industry. They're such low hanging fruit, and we've never had that low hanging fruit. So I feel like we've had to work a lot harder, to be honest, are but what's the good the upside of that our messaging has had to be stronger. Our the conversations we've had to have are more in depth. And that all just feels more aligned with our company values to be honest, than somebody impulsively signing up because they saw before and after photo on our Instagram page or they saw a wall before and after photos. Yes,

Marianne Kane  29:07

I totally resonate with that decision or that grappling that you have to do about that in the business because I've did that with Get Glutes like, do I show before and after picture like people are going to respond better to that. But I show one, and that's mine. But I talk about it after they sign up for not for the program. But for the email I talk about. That was a snapshot. Here's what happened after that. And reflecting back on that. Here's what I've learned. And that because you can't like it's a moment in time and one moment in time.

Jen Campbell  29:42

We really try to normalize weight fluctuations in our company and going Hey, like you don't, you know, maybe you you don't lose 30 pounds and you don't become 145.6 pounds and stay there forever. Like For, I would say, for our weight loss clients, we tell them to wrap their heads around moving into a different range of weight. So even me, at this point, I fluctuate in a 10 pound range. In the winter, I tend to be on the higher end. And in the summer, I tend to be on the lower end. And it's not something I have any shame over, it's not something I try to control anymore. I just ride the ebbs and flows of life. And, and that's not to say if I found myself on the higher end of that range, and kind of staying there to a point where I was like, Huh, I might reflect on my habits and make some changes. But we really try to normalize weight fluctuations, because, like, That's life, like, that is the journey of life. We are not robots, we are human beings. We have circumstances that come up, we have emotions, we have different seasons of life that we have to go through, we have elderly parents that need taken care of, we have babies, some of us have babies, right? Like there's, there's, you know, there's just this idea that you like, get somewhere and stay there. And that's not realistic for most people.

Marianne Kane  31:23

I remember thinking to myself, but it wasn't even around the time I see we were working together and I was quote, unquote, in my best ship. I like, I thought I was that was it, I made it. And I didn't have to worry about ever, you know, anything, whatever happened. And we'll talk about pride before fall because like, I remember thinking how do people find this so hard. Like, right? Oh my goodness, I cringe at myself. But I thought that I was like, because I before I struggled so much. And then after this sort of journey into fitness and strength. And that was my one answer. Then I then when things you know, life happened, and I was like, what I do not. And I just be completely honest. Recently, very recently, I saw a trend I didn't like, and I reached out to my friend Leigh Peele. And I was like Leigh, I need somebody else to tell me what's going on here. I'm just so caught in those weeds. And I needed somebody with a perspective of coaching.

Marianne Kane  32:25

and mentoring.

Jen Campbell  32:26

All coaches need coaching, like we I have a team of coaches and we all coach each other. And, you know, and that's what so i love about even the community that we built is that we're honest with our members, like we all get up in our heads. We all lie to ourselves. It's so human nature to overemphasize your strengths and size, your maybe your weaknesses. And so it's just so human. And I, when, when we talk in our community, like we talk a lot about being human and being self compassionate. And also finding the balance, we have this concept in balance 365 we call mothering yourself, or for other people, it might resonate parenting yourself might resonate more deeply with them. And we talk about the two sides of learning which inner mother you need. Do you need inner mother that's wise and comforting and will hold you? Or do you need mom who needs to give you a kick in the butt? Right. And it's not one or the other, right? And self compassion doesn't have to be just comfort, self compassion, I think even as defined by Kristin Neff, who wrote the book is showing yourself compassion and taking action in line with your values. And so for us, we talk about how sort of like, diet industry ish area, it's tough love mom all the time. And that's not going to lead to very good outcomes for people. You can't be in a very hard place in your life, meeting yourself with tough love mom.

Jen Campbell  34:08

But on the flip side, we can get into our comfort zones. And we can stay there and we can go round and round Round and these comfortable cycles. Until tough love mom shows up and says, Okay, it's time to get going. And we need both right and part of a life skill. I would say we work on in Balance 365 is learning which one you need, and it has to be applied in the right context. Because if it's not, that's when it's harmful.

Marianne Kane  34:36

Right? It's Yeah, I love that. It's like a compassion is an action word. Mm hmm. Is there anything that you particularly like, want people to, to feel like or not feel anymore?

Jen Campbell  34:55

I want people to feel like they are in charge of their bodies. There's so much noise out there of what we should do. And I think particularly for women, it is growing, I think in men. And that's not even acknowledging. Again, like, I'll just acknowledge that I'm a thin white woman here. And this is an experience I can speak to. And there are so many people with different lived experiences out there that I can't speak to or give justice to. So I just want to acknowledge that before I move forward into what I want. But I want people to feel like they are in charge of their bodies. And this should noise is so loud. And I know for women in particular, who really relate to each other in a relationship sense. It can feel very hard to know how, what you even want for yourself. And Has anyone ever asked you, right? Right. That's what I want. And I, especially in this industry with the lose weight, don't lose weight, love your body, hey, you can't love your body, if you want to change it. Like it's all. It's all BS. It really is.

Jen Campbell  36:24

And so what do you want? And that's, that's something we ask our members, and nobody's ever asked them before. Right? Like, what what do you want? What do you want?

Marianne Kane  36:34

Yeah, such a simple question, right? I remember somebody saying to me once, or watch somebody's video, and they're talking about like, what are your whose goals? Are you for whose goals do you have? Are they yours? Are they? And I, you know, it took me for the longest time to realize that so many of the things I thought I wanted weren't even things that I started wanting, like it was just kind of put onto me and I run with it. And then at some point, I'm like, wait a minute, why am I carrying this? Like, where I go from?

Jen Campbell  37:12

I think a lot of us are trying to build an identity. And we have like these aspirational identities or we have people we think, hey, it'd be real great to be that. Yeah. So then I'm going to start I tend to I'm going to start adopting all these things that I think are going to get me there, right, instead of looking in and thinking, you know, what, again, what do I want, right? So as far as like building life skills, and things and balance 365, we also do like core values and wellness visions.

Jen Campbell  37:42

And that stuff sounds might sound wooie or whatever, but like, I'm telling you, people's whole trajectories change when they start defining their own core values for life. And I have, I have worked with 1000s of women and I have never seen ones identical to the other. Right? We are all so different. And what makes us tick and drives us and pushes us towards meaningful and fulfilling lives is so different. And really, that's what makes the world go round. Right? That we are all so different and have these different values.

Marianne Kane  38:15

But So tell me, what would you if somebody is interested in hearing more about or learning more about Balance 365 oc you have your website, which is Balance365Life.com but and also @Balance 365 on Instagram? Yeah, Instagram, you mentioned that an event coming up?

Jen Campbell  38:35

We have an emotional eating workshop coming up. I might be over by the time this is published. But we try to have have workshops every couple months, which are just super informative, mindset shifting. They're usually free. And if you take anything out of those, and you don't join our program after it's just that there's a different way to live. Right? Yeah.

Marianne Kane  39:06

Love it. Well, thank you so much for being on The Equipped with Strength Podcast. And hopefully, you plus, maybe Annie could come on in the future.

Jen Campbell  39:17

I really think you you would love to talk to Annie and I think she's got so much valuable stuff to share beyond. You know what I have said today and she has just such an incredible, beautiful perspective of all of this weight loss, health wellness, growing into the woman that you were meant to be.

Marianne Kane  39:41

Love it. Well, thank you so much, Jen for being on today. And thank you everyone for tuning in. Head over to Balance365life.com and check out their program. I just love what you're doing and I hope I wish all the best for you in the future.

Jen Campbell  39:59

Thank you, Marianne.